On Tuesday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution to censure Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) over comments she made advocating for Palestinians to be free.
Cartoon by Carlos Latuff
@mondoweiss This is quite a mischaracterization, and a disingenuous one. The censure is not about advocating for a free Palestine. It is, as your own source confirms, about Tlaib's odious and hate-fomenting citation to the "from the river to the sea" rallying cry for Israel's extinction. And you know it.
And speaking of being disingenuous . . .
Calling for Israel's extinction is not the same thing as calling for the extinction of Israelis. The state is not the people. Nationalism is a mental disorder. Countries come and go. Only the earth abides.
See:
"Countries That No Longer Exist"
https://www.thoughtco.com/missing-countries-1435425
Anyone who supports the right of any state to exist is, by definition, not an anarchist. States do not exist by right but by force of arms. This is true of all states, including your own, which ever one that may happen to be.
Jews have the right to live as equals in a democratic society located in Palestine or anywhere else, and to do so safely and without being harassed by their neighbors. They do not have the right to rule by virtue of their ethnicity. No ethnic group does. Germany tried that once. So did the the American south. We all know how they turned out.
@LevZadov @mondoweiss Using that "river to the sea" language was Tlaib's foolish mistake. I'm all for relativism and nuance. Let's not blow it from the git-go by standing on opprobrium and pretending it's something good.
"Hoist with his own petard" is how Shakespeare put it.
The slogan is popular for a reason.
@LevZadov @mondoweiss "Arbeit macht frei" was a slogan popular for a reason as well.
"Arbeit macht frei" was never a popular slogan. It's just well known, that's all. "From the river too the sea" is a valid slogan because it defines the geographic territory of Palestine, and has since Roman times. The term "Palestine" does not define a polity. Over the years Palestine has been a part of a number of polities, most recently the British mandate, before that the Ottoman Empire, and so on.
Not only am I old enough to remember when Zionism was a leftwing cause but I've read enough history to know that for decades Zionists referred to themselves a "Palestinians". We can't have a cogent discussion of any subject until we are clear about the terms that define it.
"Two state solution," for example, is not what it seems because it fails to solve the central problem and in fact legitimizes Palestine's colonization as orchestrated by British imperialism. Britain had no more right to rule Palestine than did the Ottomans, or for that matter the Romans. Brits created this mess, not Arabs and Jews. They did the same thing in South Asia, which led to an even bigger body count than in Palestine. The body count in Ireland has been no less evil. There too, their creation of an artificial famine inflated their body count far beyond what mere military prowess could ever achieve. Kenya was no Sunday school picnic, either. The list goes on.
Concentration camps and torture are imperialism's way of life. Israel learned from the master of the craft. Sad to say, so did America. Israel's practice of unhousing the working class was learned from British repression of the Irish. In America today, we called it "urban renewal". We're a little more humane about it than the Brits or Israelis, but the end result is the same. "Urban renewal," said James Baldwin, "Is Negro removal." The current iteration is called "gentrification". Either way, it's a form of colonization.
Ethnic cleansing is in America's DNA as much as it is in Israel's. If it wasn't for ethnic cleansing there wouldn't even be an America. If it wasn't for ethnic cleansing Israel would be a nothing but the pipe dream of a handful of Zionist cranks. Ethnic cleansing is what brought both states to life.
Imperialism is, was, and always will be the epitome of evil. Britain's was the worst. Seventy five years after the Her Majesty's goon squad packed up and left, Palestine is still bleeding. Don't blame Jews and Arabs. They're pawns. Don't blame the board they play on, either. Blame the game.
A one state solution becomes as problematic as what we see now if it is called "Palestine" as it does if we call it "Israel". Definition of both these terms is hotly debated. Both carry too much baggage to be acceptable by either Israelis or Palestinians. Also, if a state is defined by fixed borders, both terms fail. The two state borders have never been stable. It would be better to call the land "Palestine" and the state "Canaan" because that's what it was called for centuries before the Canaanites were ethnically cleansed from their homeland. New Canaan could be a bi-national state where all who live there are equal, whatever their bloodline or religion. States are a bad idea for a wide variety intrinsic reasons, but a one state solution is less bad than a two state solution. Best would be a no-state solution. Nation states are evil, if for no other reason than they make otherwise reasonable people hate each other for trivial reasons.
"From the river too the sea" is not a call for the genocide of the Jews who live there. Jews have a right to live in Palestine, or anywhere else. They don't have a right to rule over people of other ethnicities, solely by virtue of their own ethnicity. Who do you suppose they learned that from?
"From the river too the sea" is a call for the abolition of the illegitimate polity of "Israel" because it is an apartheid monstrosity that was founded by terrorists and sits on stolen land.
It didn't have to be this way. Read it's history. Israel's immediate predecessor is a good place to start, but don't stop there. The story continues. It's still going on. History has no end.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/112577631-one-palestine-complete
@LevZadov @spamless @mondoweiss While I agree 100% with your argument, I would like to note that Jews are NOT an ethnic group, they are adherents of a religion. Yes, some do claim otherwise, but they are perhaps unaware of Ethiopian Jews, Arabic Jews, Asian Jews, Indian Jews. Often, claiming Jews are an "ethnicity" is intended to privilege Ashkenazi Jews.
@KarunaX @spamless @mondoweiss
Jews are not adherents of a religion. My wife of 39 years is a fanatical anti-Zionist atheist, raised by atheist, socialist Jews in Brooklyn. One of her cousins moved to Israel and lives as a Hasid. Another cousin is an apolitical Episcopalian. They're a not atypical Jewish American family. We also have a close personal friend who, though born a Jew, practices Buddhism. They're all close enough for Hitler.
FWIW, so am I. I'm a generic Mick boyo by descent, but my relationship with my wife makes me be what Nazis call a "race traitor". Back in the day I'd have been lucky to only be thrown into a camp and not summarily beaten to death in the street. This is still a concern of ours today because we have at least a thousand self-professed neo-Nazis living within walking distance and another couple thousand within a half hour's drive, perhaps an hour during rush hour. And that's just the ones who voted. In the second to last GOP primary, neo-Nazi Patrick Little got 1,369 votes in Alameda County, 841 in SF and 1,249 in Contra Costa County by campaigning on a platform of ethnic cleansing and Holocaust denial. That's a lot of neo-Nazis in what most of the country considers a hotbed of leftism. By their own definition, close enough for Hitler is close enough for them. To feel even remotely safe we keep a scattergun next to the bed.
Jews themselves argue incessantly about who is a "real" Jew. The only thing I've ever heard any Jew agree about on the subject is that they, personally, are Jewish. Who and what the rest are is a matter of debate, and not just among Jews, either. As far as I'm concerned, "close enough for Hitler" is close enough for me. That's why the scattergun is part of our family.
@LevZadov @KarunaX @mondoweiss Lots to chew on there, but I only have 500 chars to do it. I'm also a Jewish atheist and secular humanist. I had a bar mitzvah. My rabbi once famously gave a sermon acknowledging an atheist Jew could be a thing.
Just how old are you? I'm almost 68. I come from where you seem to be ensconced: born and raised in Oakland, albeit in the genteel hills of Montclair. I lived 40 years in the area, taking degrees in lit at Cal and law at USF before settling in Germany.
@spamless @KarunaX @mondoweiss
I'm 75. I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pa. I moved to NYC at 17, spent six years in New Haven, then settled in the East Bay where I lived for 17 years from the East Oakland flats (High Street) to Crockett, which some people consider the North Bay. I've lived in San Francisco since the 90s and am hoping to die here. It's not as nice as when I moved here but on the basis of climate alone it beats the sweltering East Bay by a country mile.
@LevZadov @spamless @mondoweiss So how does your wife define her Jewish identity? Is it a “family/cultural tradition”? The point I made is that identifying as Jewish is fraught if one tries to claim it is an “ethnicity”, as it clearly is not. Is there really such a thing as a “secular Jew” in the world of reason? (Please note - serious questions, not seeking a dispute, just discussion).
https://kolektiva.social/@MikeDunnAuthor/111392717313801709@KarunaX@mastodon.world @spamless @mondoweiss
Her mother was a Jew so she is a Jew. That's what Jews say makes a Jew be a Jew. We should believe them. It's their call.
However, not all Jews agree on this definition. This is not surprising. There is only thing I've ever heard all Jews agree on, is that they personally are Jewish and everything else is up for debate.
Jews love debate. They'll debate anything. Sometimes they switch sides and keep the debate going and to get a different perspective on the topic. Community debate is the secret sauce that makes Jews such class-A survivors. But they wont debate that one thing. See for yourself with this simple experiment. Say to a Jew's face, "I read online somewhere that you're not a real Jew." Stand back and see what happens.
"Close enough for Hitler" is a close enough definition for me. It matters less how Jews define themselves than it does how others define them. This is true not only of Jews but of all Peoples. The Nazis' definition of Jews as "Untermenschen" cost millions of lives. People argue about how many but that misses the point. One was too many.
My wife's family was assimilated. They spoke English at home. They didn't keep Kosher or attend shul. To this day, the only Jewish holiday she observes (and I with her) is Hanukkah. It's not a religious holiday. It's the secular Feast of Driving Out Imperialists and an excuse to eat a lot of fried foods. One needn't be Jew to know that imperialism is evil or that fried foods are tasty.
I'm the cook of our household. I make a superior latke. It's light and crispy, not at all like a bowling ball when it reaches the stomach. I learned how to do this from an old Jewish anarchist named Jean Pauline. That's cultural transmission by definition. FWIW, Jean was the true life heroine of the story I relate here:
https://kolektiva.social/@LevZadov/110269148202010000
No American Jew, no matter how assimilated, is unaware of how little being assimilated helped the German Jews. Assimilation does not mean a loss of cultural identity. Anthropologists note that no matter how many Old Country ways we shed with immigration, two tend to remain, the way other people define you, and family recipes.
If you’re being censured by the Racist Party, you can be pretty sure it’s not because you’re antisemitic, but for some other reason.
https://jewishcurrents.org/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean
@ahltorp @mondoweiss Dems voted to censure her as well.
“Greene, who blamed California’s 2018 wildfires on a secret Jewish space laser, accused Tlaib of “antisemitic activity” for criticizing Israel.”
@ahltorp @mondoweiss You don't have to dig up evidence to persuade me Republicans are insane. I know that well already.
Just because Republicans have an agenda here doesn't mean Tlaib is a victim. She's not.
@spamless @mondoweiss From the article in Jewish Currents:
“Fundamentally, such arguments disregard what Palestinians are calling for when they use the phrase in question: a state in which Palestinians can live in their homeland as free and equal citizens, neither dominated by others nor dominating them. When we call for a free Palestine from the river to the sea, it is precisely the existing system of domination that we seek to end.”
@ahltorp @mondoweiss You know what, last month wasn't a good time for her to invoke that phrase. It's more than just a tin ear going on here.
@spamless @mondoweiss "From the river to the sea" is not a "rallying cry for Israel's extinction". It is a cry for freedom from oppression, from State sanctioned murder. Many Palestinians (maybe not so many today) still believe in a single, multi-ethnic, multi-religious State where all exist together.
@KarunaX @mondoweiss I am not a Zionist. I am, moreover, a pacifict. The phrase is tainted with meaning, however. Even Al Jazeera, which I think does good journalism, outlines the problems with it while trying hard to explain the good intent behind it:
In weeks when thousands are dying under abysmal acts and likewise horrific acts in reaction, Tlaib's reaching for that phrase was idiotic. This is the moment for Palestinians to turn from Hamas, not double down.
@spamless @mondoweiss I don't bother with Al Jazeera. I far prefer Mondoweiss and Middle East Eye - even Haaretz - as the best legacy media to have credibility about Gaza/Palestine. Personal blogs from Gazans are often even better. https://www.middleeasteye.net/
@KarunaX @mondoweiss On October 6th, Hamas did not rally for freedom from oppression or state-sanctioned murder. It conducted its own heinous and horrific campaign of murder and gruesome against unarmed innocent civilians indiscriminately: against elderly, children, infants, peace-loving neighbors; anybody within a dagger's reach. When asked if it regretted such acts, such casualties, Hamas did not back down.
@spamless @mondoweiss If you neglect the history and context of Gaza, you will never understand.
@spamless @mondoweiss Again, you are pretending this began on Oct 6th 2023. It didn’t. It began in the 1930s and 40s as European colonists arrived and white-anted the existing society, replacing it with an apartheid state reminiscent of the white colonists in Sth Africa & Rhodesia. The subsequent Israeli state-sponsored terror gave birth to Hamas. May you look at root causes, not symptoms, if you expect any improvements.
@spamless @mondoweiss You are using Zionist talking points. The cry “from the river to the sea” is not about fomenting hate, but demanding justice for a people whose land is being stolen by (mainly) European colonists.
@mondoweiss Very misleading. 90% of Democratic Congresspeople supported Tlaib's right to free speech. The Democratic party was opposed to this, and if it controlled the house it wouldn't have happened.
> Senior State Department officials have privately discouraged the agency from using three specific phrases in public statements, HuffPost revealed last week: “de-escalation/ceasefire,” “end to violence/bloodshed” and “restoring calm.”
From https://www.huffpost.com/entry/state-department-gaza_n_6531a23ae4b0da897ab75ce4
> Adding this clarification would threaten universities with having federal funding pulled – which many universities cannot exist without – if the federal government deems the university is breeding “anti-semitism.”
> Anti-Semitism, under the Biden administration’s official definition, conflates criticism of Israel with anti-semitism.
@mondoweiss @lisamelton yet nobody stops MTG from spewing insanity. Fuck you America.
@mondoweiss it would be a strong indication of our displeasure if we petition to oust every member of congress that voted to censure her, regardless of party.
This is so disturbing. The hypocrisy, the lack of humanity, the cowardice-- not only was she silenced for speaking out AGAINST genocide, but they have the fucking NERVE to accuse her of the complete opposite. This is a twisted Orwellian nightmare.